He is a firm believer in the freedom of exercising constitutional rights, and that includes the right of every law-abiding citizen to own and carry a gun. The .450 Bushmaster is the preeminent straight-walled hunting cartridge available today. Most shooters always find it tough to decide which is better between the two. Oh and a AR 15 is way more affordable than a AR 10. The 45-70 round has proven its worth for the past hundred years. And thanks to modern powder and bullet design, there are good reasons it has staged a comeback. The former, however, has more commercially produced cartridges available, and they feature a wider diversity of bullet designs. The 450 Bushmaster has fewer options for weights, for it uses pistol sized bullets. Many Americans old enough to remember the postwar 1950s think, Colonel John Dean “Jeff” Cooper was a trailblazing icon in, Col. Jeff Cooper—the widely acknowledged expert who brought self-defense firearm training to civilians by establishing what would become Gunsite Academy—was a big proponent of .44-bore or larger guns for their one-shot-stop potential. With its higher muzzle velocity, the 450 has the flattest trajectory and maintains the most energy. Col. Jeff Cooper—the widely acknowledged expert who brought self-defense firearm training to civilians by establishing what would become Gunsite Academy—was a big proponent of .44-bore or larger guns for their one-shot-stop potential. As previously discussed, the .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, and .50 Beowulf all offer performance comparable to the .45-70 from an AR platform. Case length in the Bushmaster is 1.7 inch, and the .45-70’s runs 2.105 inches. A ten round 5.56 holds three 450 Bushmaster. That is not a problem, the 45-70 is way to much capacity for smokeless powder. I found the 450 bushmaster to be the best bang for the buck and with the new regs in some states, it is legal. It was a well-known fact he didn’t like the effectiveness of .223 Rem and 5.56 NATO when delivered from AR-15s. It never fully disappeared and has made a steady comeback. 450B vs 45-70 penetration. by Hopalong » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:37 am . .⁠ In .450 Bushmaster, Hornady makes a subsonic 395-grain load with its proven Sub-X bullet—the heaviest bullet we could find, although there’s no doubt new offerings appear with regularity. Tap the, Understanding Different 12-Gauge Shotgun Load Types, 300 Blackout Effective Range & Best Barrel Length, Best 9mm Ammo: Plinking, Training & Home Defense, 350 Legend: Caliber Overview & Best Ammo Options. Having a muzzle velocity of 2,100 fps to 2,200 fps, the 450 Bushmaster is undoubtedly not a slow cartridge. The price of a 450 Bushmaster is double the price of a 45-70, which makes it hard for hunters to root for the 450 Bushmaster. Anyway, their differences aren’t that significant in most aspects. Posts: 0 Size difference between a 44mag and a .450 bushy Jul 22, 2012 16:19:07 GMT -5 . So, both have heavyweights and are dangerous. Manufacturers are also producing those lower-pressure, smokeless black powder-equivalent cartridges for cowboy action enthusiasts or those lucky enough to be running family heirlooms. The 450 Bushmaster has plenty of knockdown power to stop everything from feral hogs to elk and even bears within its designated target range of 250 yards. Oh and a AR 15 is way more affordable than a AR 10. Compare those figures to Federal’s 62-grain Fusion 223 Rem bullet and it’s obvious the Bushmaster answers Cooper’s call for an up-close fight-stopping cartridge that runs in a semi-auto rifle. Some of the big AR platform cartridges are propriety and ammo or brass is hard to find. He was…. Different rifles seldom produce identical performance, even with … I found this was definitely true for the .450 Bushmaster that was giving me between 1.5 and 2.5-inch groupings at 100 yards. Love hunting? Today you can find it in new bolt- and lever-action guns. Read a comparison of hunting rifles, Remington 783 and 700. More fashionable cartridges—like the 1906 introduction of the .30-’06 Sprg.—took a big chunk of market share, though. They are ideal out to moderate distances and carry the kind of bulk known to bust through thick brush or takedown foes as big as bruins. 450 Bushmaster vs 458 SOCOM vs 50 Beowulf: Which Is Right For You? Even with its 250-grain or 260-grain bullet delivering 2,800 ft/lbs of kinetic energy at the muzzle, it’s no wonder shooters call it a beast in target shooting. Unfortunately, it does not run in modern sporting rifles, although a few companies modified the casing’s rim to accomplish the feat. When it comes to ballistics information, there are slight differences in 450 Bushmaster vs 458 SOCOM. Jk, I like that 45-70 comes in singles and lever guns. Accurate like MOA accurate at 100 yards. That fact’s critical because the projectile diameter isn’t even identical between the cartridges, despite names that hint they are. When stuffed with modern powder its performance rivals a much more modern ballistic invention. A .45-70 is 2.105". It leaves the gun at a scalding 3,000 fps, but generates only 1,239 foot-pounds of energy. FTX round has a published muzzle velocity of 2200 fps while the SOCOM round loaded with the Barnes 250-gr. A bullet of nearly equal girth—the AR-15-friendly .450 Bushmaster. Buying Guide Included. If you need a rifle capable of delivering one-shot stops, that .45-70 Gov’t. That was a lot more accurate than my .45-70… Hornady LEVERevolution .45-70 vs 5.56 At just 7lbs, the Model 1895 is a solid choice for someone who wants the power and accuracy of a rifle at short range but doesn’t want to carry around a brick. The AR platform has literally thousands of compatible accessories available on the market. Either cartridge cartridge easily out performs the 45-70 which clocks in at around 2000 ft/s for a … Moderator: MudBug. With its higher muzzle velocity, the 450 has the flattest trajectory and maintains the most energy. Bullet weights from other manufacturers run all the way from 225 grains to 500 grains. We recommend to check it out too. Bullets for the .450 Bushmaster, on the other hand, have the same diameter as those used in .45 ACP handguns—.452 inch. Bushmaster later licensed it and in 2007 enthusiasts caught their first glimpse of the .450 Bushmaster. .458 SOCOM vs. .450 Bushmaster Differences. Required fields are marked *. 1, the Marlin 1895, and Trapdoor Springfields. Since the 450 Bushmaster was initially designed to work in an AR-15 and other bolt-action rifles, it can shoot better for long-range hunting games. Bullets for the .45-70 Gov’t measure .458 inch in diameter. The U.S. Army adopted the .45-70 Gov’t cartridge in 1873 for use in its Trap Door Springfield rifles. On the right is the Hornady Bushmaster .450 Seems rediculous to me that the 450 is legal and an HPR round isn't. Although it shoots seamlessly at 250 yards, it makes a drop in shooting in longer ranges. Velocity (… Both fall between the high and low range pressure of.45-70 loads as to trajectory and power. The .450 Bushmaster can’t handle even half of that. So, which one’s really the better chambering for your next rifle purchase? Of course, if you’re among those who have a touch of Cowboy spirit, a lever-action looks mighty nice on your saddle. Mine is as accurate as any 45-70 I own ( two, both single shots). Some of the big AR platform cartridges are propriety and ammo or brass is hard to find. Joined Dec 7, 2015 Messages 575 Location Northern IN. A fun competition shooting category where this popular cartridge will never fall out of grace. It thrives in the modern sporting rifles category and has invaded bolt-action territory and even lever actions. 7 posts • Page 1 of 1. Of course, with bullets of this diameter, the primary mission is taking down big game—including bears—from up close and personal to out at medium distances. Our Top Picks, What’s The Best Night Vision Crossbow Scope For Hunting? These two are probably more similar than different, but the devil is in the details. While the .450 Bushmaster and .350 Legend are new cartridges relative to the .45 Colt and .45-70, they share a number of the same features and performance. Both cartridges have the kind of arching trajectory that limits effective range. .450 Bushmaster Vs .350 Legend Cost. Bullet Size: 250 grains (Bullets range from 245 to 300 grains) 4. Either way, both rounds are accurate and worth your every penny. Wondering why someone would want a 450 Bushmaster is like asking why you would want Thor’s hammer. That’s game-stopping power in both cases. Accordingly, many of the loads available fulfill that mission. Wondering why someone would want a 450 Bushmaster is like asking why you would want Thor’s hammer. If that gun’s going to do double duty as part of your home-defense plan, Col. Cooper’s wisdom is hard to ignore. Those pistol projectile weights and profiles predominated the cartridge’s loadings at first, although more hunting-friendly designs appear often now. Cartridge (gr@ft/s) Rifle Weight (lbs) Recoil Energy (ft-lbs) Recoil Velocity (ft/s).17 HMR (17 at 2550) 7.5: 0.2: 0.17 Rem. A ten round 5.56 holds three 450 Bushmaster. TSX HP bullet is listed at 1990 fps. Bullet Size: 300 grain; Muzzle Velocity: 1,880 fps; Muzzle Energy: 2,355 foot-pounds; Velocity (200 yards): 1,425; Energy (200 yards): 1,355 Twitter and other social media icons below. After all,…, Colonel John Dean “Jeff” Cooper was a trailblazing icon in the techniques of defensive firearms usage. Bushmaster .450 Effective Range. You will pay more, on average, for .45-70 Gov’t ammunition than for .450 Bushmaster. Therefore, we recommend you to use 450 Bushmaster to shoot targets at long distances. One of the biggest arguments for the .458 SOCOM is the ability to handle up to 600-grain. Repost from @down_range_photography⁠ In comparison, the 45-70 Government cartridge features a smokeless effect with its special gunpowder, which can propel up to 1350 muzzle velocity. Mine is as accurate as any 45-70 I own ( two, both single shots). lbs., respectively, in eight pound rifles. Which is better 350 Legend or 450 Bushmaster? The .450 Marlin is a versatile short to medium range cartridge, ideal for light through to large medium game and adequate for large heavy game with due consideration. That was a … On the contrary, the 45-70 offers tons of weight options for you with its rifle size bullets ranging from 225 to 500 grains, while the Bushmaster ranges from 158 to 300 grains. The difference is the 45-70 is a rimmed case and the.450 Marlin is a belted case. Federal’s lineup currently sticks to 300-grain offerings. There is no taper toward the bullet, shoulder, neck, … The.45-70 features a 2.105-inch rimmed case whereas the.450 Bushmaster uses a 1.70-inch rebated-rim case. The Bushmaster gets the nod in cartridge pressure, with the ability to hold 38,500 PSI. The.350 Legend (9×43 mm), additionally called 350 LGND, is a SAAMI-approved straight-walled chasing cartridge created by Winchester Repeating Arms. Support us on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/whoteewhoWhich caliber will win the paper plate test?? The 450 Bushmaster 250-gr. The 450 Bushmaster has really proven itself to be a short-range beast in the hunting world. Accordingly, it’s fun to decide what type of .45-70 Gov’t projectile you want to send downrange. Yeah.. That's right! Muzzle velocities are another interesting juxtaposition between the two cartridges. As previously discussed, the .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, and .50 Beowulf all offer performance comparable to the .45-70 from an AR platform. Luckily, 450 Bushmaster is better by making a fast cartridge. After doing so, we have decided to give this point to 450 Bushmaster due to its higher muzzle velocity. Bullet styles include those Fusions, lead round nose, Barnes TSX hollow points, Remington HTP Copper, hollow points, Hornady LEVERRevolution FTX, lead flat nose, and many more. Both centerfires are solid choices for taking big game at moderate range, and their looks are similar, but the differences are significant. The Government 45-70 offers modern loading types such as Ruger No. I would vote 45-70 ammo is everywhere. Rubber meet road, because if there is anyone point in .450 Bushmaster vs .350 Legend battle where one wins out, it’s here. Bushmaster .450 Effective Range. Shell Case Length: 1.7 inches (All .450 Bushmaster) 3. The firearms and cartridges used by U.S. volunteer regiments during the Spanish-American War were all chambered in .45-70 Gov’t, with the notable exception of Teddy Roosevelt’s Rough Riders. This historical cartridge isn’t ready to be put out to pasture just yet. Federal’s Fusion hunting loads illustrate the arching trajectory. 458 SOCOM what's to say? As a generalization, it typically offers a … The .45-70 Gov’t and .450 Bushmaster are both called straight-walled cartridges. is hard to beat. Additionally, there are many different bullet weights and styles in that width. Although personal preference, shooting styles, and rifle brands are the main deciding factors, having an in-depth comparison might help you decide better. Keep in mind, too, that the older rifles designed for black powder loads cannot use all cartridges loaded with smokeless powder safely. When he presented it to Cooper, along with a suitably chambered carbine, he called the ammo .45 Professional. There is no taper toward the bullet, shoulder, neck, or other changes of direction in the case walls. Big Bore Cartridges Compared – 460 S&W vs 444 Marlin vs 450 BM vs 45-70 Govt Match Grade Machine did extensive testing with different barrel lengths in some of our most popular cartridges. The difference is the 45-70 is a rimmed case and the.450 Marlin is a belted case. Let your fellow shooters know – share this article using the Facebook, Which is better 350 Legend or 450 Bushmaster? The 450 bushmaster isn't going anywhere, more midwest states that didn't allow rifles are starting to allow straight case rifles. There are other differences, but it all adds up to the fact that no gun can run both cartridges interchangeably. As an example, the .450 Guide gun is capable of pushing a 350 grain bullet at 2000fps as opposed to 2300fps in the Ruger No1 .45-70 or 2200fps in the Marlin M1895 with 24” barrel. Your email address will not be published. The Lehigh Penetrator is one modern example. With the various … Loaded with black powder it ran well enough in the single shots to remain the military’s official ammo for 19 years. It was a well-known fact he didn’t like the effectiveness of, Who has a rifle competitions planned for 2021? No because of the larger rim BUT, you can build or buy an AR in 450 Bushmaster. In this category, the Government 45-70 factory ammo wins against the 450 Bushmaster. They’re all very effective on a wide variety of game at short to moderate range. Those platforms seem to give you the best uses for that classic thumper. To help you understand the caliber’s performance, let’s take a look at the 250-grain FTX Hornady BLACK, a versatile cartridge that can be used for hunting and target shooting: 1. Even then, the government wasn’t in a hurry to ditch the ammo and guns. Related article: 224 Valkyrie vs 6.5 Creedmoor Comparison. The velocity of this product can go up to 2100 fps, while it stops at 1350 fps for.45-70. 45-70 Government & 450 Bullet Energy The .450 Bushmaster is descended from the Thumper concept popularized by gun writer Jeff Cooper. I found the 450 bushmaster to be the best bang for the buck and with the new regs in some states, it is legal. See, Anyone else's New Years Resolution to be buy more. Also, the latter has a rimmed case and the former has a rebated rim—noticeable groove or slimming of the diameter above it. A semi auto 45-70 that never gives a minute of trouble is unbelievable. The 45-70 3025 fps with a 325 grain bullet. 450 Marlin vs 45-70. Options in bullet design include some cutting-edge versions. case. So if you’d still want to purchase a 450 Bushmaster, the choice is always yours. Last Edit: Jul 22, 2012 16:37:31 GMT -5 by lugnutz. Bullet Diameter: .452 inches (All .450 Bushmaster) 2. There’s no denying, the 450 Bushmaster is a devastating hard hitter when it comes to deer and medium-sized game. Modern 45-70 cartridges are in the 1,850 FPS range on average, but some high-pressure hunting loads can reach over 2,700 FPS. MI was the latest I know of last year. There are, however, popular alternatives used regularly for cowboy action shooting competitions. The 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel are great alternatives as rifle bullets. 45-70 with 460 grain WFN Hammer of Thor bullets loaded over 12 grains of Unique is very accurate and a total blast to shoot. 6307 Arnold Dr, Austin, TX 78723 | Phone: +1 (512) 412-1014 | Email: What’s the Difference Between 450 Bushmaster & 45-70? The .450 Marlin has ballistics almost identical to magnum .45-70 Government ammunition and the cartridge fires the same weight bullet approximately 600fps faster than lower pressure .45-70 ammo intended for use in the Trapdoor Springfield. Talk about the AR15 style rifles chambered in 450 Bushmaster. The physical dimensions of each cartridge are far from identical, despite the resemblance. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. There’s been a resurgence of interest in both because a number of states have now made the use of this style ammunition legal during big-game seasons (check local regulations). Will it do the job for which is is most popular. Many Americans old enough to remember the postwar 1950s think of those years with great fondness. We have tested these high-quality rounds to check which has a better trajectory. It grew particularly popular with hunters and other civilian sportsmen after smokeless powder replaced the traditional black powder propellant. It is a fast cartridge with a flat trajectory that shoots perfectly at 250 yards. Both cartridges deliver nearly identical performance downrange and are suitable for hunting, where legal. Although it falls short to some aspects against the 450 Bushmaster, having more options in the reloading bench and being more affordable is a huge advantage. When it comes to ballistics information, there are slight differences in 450 Bushmaster vs 458 SOCOM. It includes options from the Fusion bullet, to a grain bonded soft point and jacketed soft point. Cooper was dissatisfied with the small-diameter 5.56×45mm NATO (.223 Remington) of the AR-15, and envisioned a need for a large bore (.44 cal or greater) cartridge in a semi-automatic rifle to provide one-shot kills on big-game animals at 250 yards. It’s a matter of personal preference. If you have confidence in a certain projectile for hunting, the odds are better you’ll find it in .45-70 Gov’t before you see it in .450 Bushmaster. For reference, a 450 Bushmaster has a case length of 1.7" and a 350 Legend is 1.71". Oct 3, 2019 #20 M. midwesthunter Well-known member. .450 Bushmaster This is the smallest of the thumpers, with a bullet diameter of .452". The 450 Bushmaster earns another badge in this department. In the shooting community, the eternal tussle about 450 Bushmaster vs 45-70 being the better straight-wall cartridge is still a hot topic. (25 at 4000) 8.5: 1.6: 3.5.204 Ruger (33 at 4225) 458 SOCOM AR platform 450 Marlin in an Encore and on in a Winchester 94 TD 450 Bushmaster in Ruger Ranch and one in Ruger Scout. The 45-70 shoots a bit flatter at the longer range. Here’s a quick rundown of the key considerations for 45-70 VS .450 Bushmaster if you’re looking for a new rifle in either chambering. The 450 Bushmaster has fewer options for weights, for it uses pistol sized bullets. There are dozens of loads for any given bullet weight in any cartridge that will produce different velocity and energy figures. Stay in touch with Widener's, be the first to know about new articles, products, and more. With as much energy as this cartridge generates, you’re going to get a larger range. What’s The Best Thermal Imaging Camera for Hunting? Additionally, the increased pressure can lead to catastrophic failures and injury. Both fall between the high and low range pressure of .45-70 loads as to trajectory and power. If options are the spice of life, it’s definitely tasty. These numbers clearly show that the Legend is a powder puff, compared with the heavy recoiling .45- and .50- caliber cartridges. In a lever gun you can get into a 45-70 in a guide gun, or a 450 Marlin. A variety of companies manufacture rifles that digest the cartridge. By comparison, recoil of the .450 Bushmaster and .50 Beowulf loads calculate as 19.5 ft. lbs. With as much energy as this cartridge generates, you’re going to get a larger range. The 45-70 Gov’t cartridge is over 140 years old and originally designed for the use of black powder as a propellant. He developed a “.45” cartridge that would run reliably in an AR-15. The 45-70 has a much broader range of loads available than the.450 Marlin. The 450 Bushmaster uses the AR15 platform and ammo is readily available At a reasonable price ($22.00 to$28.00 dollars a box) if you don't reload. Let’s look at the key differences: Power. ... Good job Hop. The .350 Legend gets the job done, but if you want to cleanly, quickly, and humanely drop game animals at 200 to 300 yards, the .450 Bushmaster is a better option..45-70 Government vs. 450 Bushmaster. The 45-70 falls short, for it performs better in short-range shootings. If the team were to choose between the 450 Bushmaster vs 45-70 Government, we’d say that the 45-70 Government is the better choice. One of the disadvantages of the 450 Bushmaster is the amount of recoil associated with the round… The 450 Bushmaster is a heavy ammunition with a large diameter and spectrum designed for the AR-15 platform and M16 rifles. 450 Bushmaster or 45-70 Government - Which is Better? There are also bonded soft points, jacketed soft points, hollow points, and even a frangible load (the 158-grainer). Bushmaster pushes a 250 grain bullet at 2200 fps. The more we all know, the better organized and stronger the shooting and hunting community will be. and 23.1 ft. Standardized specifications from the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute prevent accidentally chambering the wrong ammunition. It uses a rebated rim cartridge case based on the .284 Win. With this, the 450 Bushmaster takes another point. SOCOM 458 vs Bushmaster 450 Ballistics In factory loads for the 45-70 … By Chuck Hawks. The 450 Bushmaster has the flattest trajectory that retains the most energy and outperforms the 45-70 in terms of wind drift. On the contrary, the 45-70 offers tons of weight options for you with its rifle size bullets ranging from 225 to 500 grains, while the Bushmaster ranges from 158 to 300 grains. The.45-70 Gov’t and.450 Bushmaster are both called straight-walled cartridges. There have been a number of different manufacturers who make both bolt action and semi-auto rifles for the 450 Bushmaster. Born and raised in Austin TX, Alfred has been shooting guns since he was 18. Between the two cartridges, the .45-70 Gov’t offers the widest variety of bullet weights in commercially available offerings. The .450 Bushmaster is descended from the Thumper concept popularized by gun writer Jeff Cooper. Problem the rifle is a pig to carry and hunt with. A semi auto 45-70 that never gives a minute of trouble is unbelievable.